I get frustrated by the "Dems need to message better" or "Dems are out of touch with..." arguments. I find it be exhaustively lazy especially when dozens of other factors aren't even brought to bear for consideration in those arguments. On the flip side, people also need to fucking listen, observe, and think (stop laughing). Often times they won't pay attention to a tap on the shoulder they have to get hit with a sledghammer in order to realize what's actually happening...and many times it's too late.
I don't want people to suffer from Donnie's horrifying policies...but they will (unfortunately it'll effect those that didn't vote for him). Maybe that will be the sledgehammer that will do what it needs to cause listening, observing, and thinking the next time they vote.
They think because they work hard and are socially conservative, that this will get them a free pass in the eyes of the MAGA people. Unspoken: "I'm the better immigrant, not like those other ones!" When they do mass sweeps they pick up anybody who's the "wrong" skin color, no matter who, no matter the status and dump them into the detention/deportation system.
Former Sheriff Joe Arpaio did this on a small scale in Arizona (at least in some respects; he was local law enforcement, not federal. Still he targeted and terrorized Latinos and even particular communities).
Arpaio’s malfeasance cost Maricopa County residents over $80 million dollars. It’s always the folks like him playing tough guy who engage in bombast and bluster who end up carrying out counterproductive and overly costly policies.
A straight by spending so much time, manpower and money terrorizing Latin communities, he left many hundreds of sexual assault case piling up, uncorked. I can't believe that old fucker is still alive.
Pointing out that MAGAts are hateful racists is the same as pointing out that the sky is blue and water is wet. I'm not convinced that Musk's outrage bait is nothing more than a propaganda smokescreen. The core of his interests are simple: money & efforts to expand his business interests (see Russia, India, Germany, UK, and his failed bid in Brazil, which has moved his sight towards Venezuela) and avoid government oversight and regulation. It makes him more of a contemptible piece of [wealthy] white trash, but it makes his stans worse. The fact that he's rightly pointing out the demographics of the GOP base is almost lost in the noise.
Has it occurred to you that many people of color who chose to support Republicans in spite of their overt racism did so because the GOP’s open misogyny appealed to them? I know nothing about the guy whose post is reproduced in the article but learning that his most cherished “conservative value” is the second class status of women would not surprise me at all.
Almost all the black 45 voters were men. 92% of black women voted for Harris/Walz.
I told my husband that every last 45 voter voted for hatred, which was the only consistently clearly communicated platform of 45 and Mr Couch. All these media folks claiming they voted because of the economy are knowingly lying through their teeth.
Totally agree. Not only did trump and co run an overtly racist campaign but a deeply misogynistic one as well. “It’s a Man’s World” was theme song of their convention for Christ’s sake.
Boo fucking hoo to anyone thinking it can’t happen to them. Does anyone recall Trump 1.0 when some Trump voter lady’s husband got deported but she didn’t think it could happen to her?
A big Duh!!! Italians weren’t considered “white either. Too much melanin in their skin.
Covid was killing more men than women and more people of “color” than “whites”.
Wasn’t it convenient to “open up the country”? To have “herd immunity” when a higher percentage of the people the White Nationalists wanted gone were dying than the Younger White Americans.
Italians, Poles, and the rest of Eastern European immigrants were awarded "Honorary White People" status in World War I to go fightI. They came home from the war and discovered it didn't really count (I can remember the last really bad "wop joke" I heard was somewhere in the early/mid 70s). However, over the past 50 years the "honorary" has been taken from the title. Mostly.
The Army was segregated then, and for the units like the Japanese-American 442nd Regimental Combat Team, most of the "white" officers who led them were eastern/southern European, or Jews; same with the African-American units like the 761st Armored "Black Panthers." Other African-American units were commanded by white southerners to "keep them in their place."
A "secular" Jewish officer who commanded the company of the 442nd who were "first through the gate" at Dachau (where his life was changed forever; he came home and became a rabbi) was the guy who first told me and the church group I belonged to back in 1958 about the Holocaust, passing around uncensored photos he took that day to prove it was real.
That must have been horrifying. No wonder he became a rabbi. It was probably the most healthy way to cope with the trauma of having been exposed to that.
My dad helped free the camps and he described the poor walking skeletons, he saw there and had a complete nervous breakdown when he came back from the horror. He then would not discuss it for over forty years.
I wonder how class plays into this, as in people thinking they won't be affected because they have STEM degrees and are well educated, compared to other immigrants who do manual labor, janitorial work, nannying, dishwashing, elder care, crop picking, etc.
With the Indians, they are coming from a Caste System with themselves at the top. Even though they were modifying it, I doubt that it really penetrated the Brahmin eschlon. (It certainly hasn't penetrated the Southern Elite) And that is the level that promoted the highest education levels. So most of these people have come from the highest level of their Society and are very use to be the top. They couldn't imagine that they are considered the bottom by American Racists.
I conversed with numerous Latinos that arrived undocumented but had the good fortune of becoming US citizens. My conclusion of those favoring Trump viewed immigrants no differently from the Nativists. New arrivals would take jobs away, drive wages down, possessed a different work ethic, and-unbelievably-culturally inferior. The missing element was whiteness.
Probably 10 % expressed party differences, the overriding issue being abortion. Inflation and the ballooning deficit were marginal issues.
The shocking discovery I experienced is the visceral hate toward Venezuelans, who in the last years competed with Cubans as the second or third group with most arrivals. Both , Venezuelans and Cubans, rub other Hispanics the wrong way as they’re not prone to undertake backbreaking jobs.
The Venezuelans bad rap was amplified through viral videos showcasing a thuggish behavior, disregard of US laws and regulations, and bad press such as the misleading claims of the Tren de Arauca gang’s takeover of Aurora, CO.
Regardless, the Democrats mixed messages were an overriding factor, their inconsistent policies were perceived as fake to the core, many Latinos took issue with their dishonesty . Others were not happy with the ongoing genocide, Arabs and Jews coexist peacefully in LATAM. I warned my congresspeople , received a stack of emails none addressed my concerns.
A small group fell hook, line, and sinker on widely spread canards that new arrivals were flown in, wined and dined in five star hotels, and provided a generous stipend. These folks were enraged beyond belief.
Refuting these canards an exercise in futility . When confronted on issues such as their discriminatory behavior against the new arrivals, doing exactly the same thing they did years before, the response was universal; they deserved it, the new arrivals lack values and work ethic. Pressed about Trump’s racist remarks, acted as if these were not directed at them. Self-delusion also played a role.
It’s an ongoing debate, I outlined my experience, which could be very different from others’ experiences.
I doubt Trump will deport these folks but if he does, most of them will find themselves in dire straits. Generally, some relative in their household are yet to receive their citizenship, their children and grandchildren, born here, will undergo a cultural shock. They’ll end up in rural communities or ranchos, a big difference from a city of a couple of million. They’ll eventually return as unskilled citizens.
I won’t take pleasure if those who voted for Trump suffer from Trump’s proposed policies, I’ll feel very sorry for their plight. I won’t judge them as our society has failed them, constantly dehumanizing Latinos. I’m a Latino, and take issue when ignorant racists who don’t have a clue why folks emigrate, resort to hateful rhetoric. Especially the orange freak.
The immigration raids this week in Kern County have (somehow?) shocked a lot of the Latino people I know who voted for Trump.
I mean, staking out gas stations where farmworkers typically buy food before they go work the fields or at lunch sure sounds like "immigration enforcement operations specifically targeting known criminals." 🙄🙄
Great observation didn’t cross my mind. They definitely should be shocked, if getting a bite at a gas station is akin to drug trafficking. Eating at your local Chili’s, CBP must up the ante , probably charging folks with ??? I’ll sleep with it, I might come up with the probable charges…
Thank you for your post. As I learned it in American History in college, each large emigration of folks of a like ethnic and cultural background (Italians, Irish, Chinese) was met the same way as the more recent large emigrations of Latin people. That is, they were treated with mistrust, bigotry, forced to take hard labor work for abysmal pay, had difficulty obtains basic human needs like shelter and food. Those large migrations and the individuals that took part became what we recognize today as “Americans.” It makes no sense at all to me that they feel like they have any right to claim ownership of this country, that gave their ancestors the same treatment they are doing. It was awful and inhumane then and it still is. Why do they think that only people from their ethnic backgrounds are allowed to be here? What’s worse is they are completely ignorant of the current reasons and the current events happening in the countries they are trying to escape from. Gang violence in Equador?People and their families murdered in cold blood for refusal to join violent gangs? That’s an older example but I think it makes the point. Worse, they don’t care why people are seeking a safer and better life in a place where they’ll be treated as subhuman and will work their asses off for crappy pay in dangerous work environments, just like the Italians did in factories. Geopolitics isn’t on their radar much less their knowledge. But it sure is interesting when we get a look at so many of the anti-immigrant extremists’ employees. Hell, the moron that really put the spotlight and false information on immigration and that has caused the much further spread of this horrific hatred is MARRIED TO AN IMMIGRANT!!! Yet FOX news and their like worship him and spread his poisonous agenda. I don’t know if they’ve ever once even acknowledged that she is an immigrant. And that her family is also, made possible by the same methods for residency and citizenship that he insults and twists. So, yeah, I agree it’s messed up and in no universe and under any circumstance is it ok.
Spot on Rebecca. Venezuelans rarely emigrated, then , as John Bolton stated, we applied sanctions that would strangle the regime, and suddenly they show up at our border.
Very few folks realize how our foreign policy enables emigration to the US.
Your Ecuadorean example is a case study, illustrates our nefarious policies. Under the leftist government of Correa, Ecuador enjoyed sustained high growth rates, and significant poverty reduction. Correa left a solid infrastructure and functioning public service. He did it because he eschewed the Washington consensus, and governed in the interest of the people. Oligarchs were beyond themselves, the US Embassy-Wikileaks provide a good overview- worked with oligarchs to destabilize his government. The MSM media spewed USG talking points, portraying him as a corrupt dictator, same as Evo in Bolivia.
He fled the country as his successor, who betrayed him, leveled charges against him. Successive governments reintroduced the Washington consensus, disassembling Correa’s policies. The oligarchs were back in control. As you mentioned, the social fabric deteriorated, the banana oligarchs joined forces with the Albanian mafia, and Ecuador became a drug smuggling heaven.
To contain the chaos, the useless scion of the wealthiest banana tycoon, Noboa, was elected president. He fashion himself as Ecuador’s Bukele. His strategy has backfired miserably, crime is rampant, infrastructure has collapsed-16 hour blackouts are the norm-, crackdown on critical press outlets. He resigned last week,as he is seeking reelection….
Under Correa, when he became president blackouts were common , upon leaving he left a solid electrical grid. The press treated blackouts under him as a sign of his incompetence. Under Noboa it’s Correa’s fault and the unusual weather patterns ( climate change is a hoax). Noboa promised Ecuadoreans the electric grid would be functional by December, he didn’t specify the year. He’s got the full backing of the USG, it’s pretty telling…
Then we have the right’s newly minted darling, Milei, praised for reigning hyperinflation by implementing Washington consensus’ policies on steroids. Petty issues such as increasing the ranks of the poor by 4 million in a year should be overlooked, but must celebrate the wealthy as these have made a killing in Milei’s first year. It won’t take long when we start seeing Argentinians crossing our border. Gotta give it to Milei, increasing the poverty rate from 42 percent to 53 percent is quite a feat.
It’s an unending story as we can’t stop meddling in other countries’ affairs. Our sights are now on Colombia’s Petro…
Thanks for your comment. You make some interesting points that I’m trying to process. I’m having a difficult time understanding that we have a trusting nature.
Why do Christian evangelicals vote lockstep for republican candidates, despite their moral shortcomings, such as Trump?
Your comment brought to mind a book by Chris Hedges called American Fascists. Chris tried to understand the reasons behind the emergence of the Christian right, spending two years among them.
He describes that members are overwhelmingly poor disaffected whites from communities hollowed out by globalization. Their frustrating and hopeless nature, ripe for exploitation, didn’t go unnoticed by wealthy whites many of these committed racists e.g. Jerry Falwell.
These so-called pastors preach a twisted Christian ideology. They advocate dominionism, the country must be ruled by a set of Christian beliefs. The beliefs are appalling, promoting masculinity, the right to use violence against infidels, female subjugation, conversion therapy-applying nefarious methods such as inducing vomiting, exorcism, electric shocks and other methods, and dismantling institutions such as libraries, civil rights organizations, government agencies.
Racism against LGBQT, Islamophobia, US ruled by Christian whites, diversity is evil, carrying weapons is encouraged-the day of rapture will be a violent one-, wealth is considered virtuous. The latter is interesting, explains why folks vote against their interests, they’ve been told that inequality is OK, and the saddest part the pastors live a life of luxury mega mansion, yachts, private jets, etc. by milking their followers blindly.
It’s estimated Evangelicals represent 20 % of the electorate. Any republican hopeful must pay homage to secure their votes. Therefore, oligarchs and corporations sponsor these groups, blatantly taking advantage of them. Bush Jr. was the first to capitalize on this movement, every Republican candidate followed suit, and supported Trump as 80 % of these Evangelicals voted for him.
My question is where would the trusting nature fit their narrative? Their situation doesn’t improve, if I had a trusting nature, I would question why issues remain the same despite being told differently.
As you state, it’s a complex issue and no single answer will explain why folks vote against their interests ( Hispanics who came undocumented, became citizens, and vote for someone who who would
strip them of their citizenship)? Or against value voters (Evangelicals that preach against abortion, philandering, hedonism) ?
One last point, I didn’t expect to write this much. I saw a panel on Piers Morgan discussing Mark Zuckerberg’s recent trip to Mar-a-Largo check in hand and change of heart, no more censorship. As you rightly point out, it devolved into cultural warfare. Finally, a sane voice stated the obvious, this is what Musk, Zuckerberg, and our oligarchs wants us to do, spend our energy and petty issues, divide and conquer . The real issue is why we allow these folks to highjack our government. I completely agree, and it’s hard to have a meaningful conversation without devolving into petty issues that keep us distracted.
Thanks for sharing, I need to get going. Before I start ranting the storm Musk created in support of Tommy Robinson, it’s brought the worst out of the right, crude Islamophobia, Robinson is perceived as a paragon of morality defending white girls. If only they could see how well behaved are young Brit’s.
I admire your charitable view of Trump voters. I've been searching for a reason that isn't ‘othering’ or blaming racism, sexism or misogyny for their decisions. I find it hard to believe that such a large minority are all cruel, ignorant, racist, sexist or misogynistic. And I think I've found an explanation: that it's down to our trusting nature. The Trump voters already have a conservative rather than progressive viewpoint, so they believed the lies they were being fed because, coupled with their political & cognitive bias, they trusted the messages conservative politicians were feeding them and mistrusted the messages of Democrats. The bigger the lie, the easier it is to sell: “That's so outrageous it must be true, no one would get away with such a whopping lie.”! This was a tactic originally (or at least most infamously) was espoused and employed by Hitler and the Nazi party.
Of course there are racists, sexists and misogynists among them and this explanation isn't entirely satisfactory either. The truth is probably complex and complicated but I believe we have to start looking beyond the deeply divisive explanations that resort to labelling Trump voters as contemptible. Yes, some of them surely are, but it just doesn't seem reasonable to say they all are, or even that the majority are. Sticking to the divisive arguments only plays into Trump's & the GOP's hands: “Divide and conquer”. If I may make a comparison with the Brexit vote here in the UK, I've met very few people that have admitted to voting for Brexit. That's partly because Londoners overwhelmingly voted against it. However, the ones I have met weren't stupid, cruel or xenophobic, they had genuine concerns. Their ‘fault’ was believing the widespread misinformation about the EU they'd been pedalled for decades. That fed into their cognitive bias and they believed the lies they were being told: the £300 million per week that would go to the NHS; our fishing & farming industries freed from red tape and overregulation; that we could get our dark navy blue passports back; that bananas could be curved again (excuse my sarcasm, but the last two were both persistent myths that had been touted in the right-wing tabloid press since at least the 80s. The truth is that there never was an EU regulation about the shape of bananas and neither was there one that stated that our passports had to be burgundy; the British government opted to conform to the colour of other EU countries' passports for fairly obvious reasons). Brexit was every bit as devisive an issue here as Trump is in the US and if there were another referendum now a large number of Brexit voters would vote to rejoin (the numbers were actually very similar to the popular vote in the US, around 1%. The 2016 referendum was actually non-binding and I always argued that for such a monumental decision it wasn't quorate – the practise in any big company that major decisions need a ⅔ or greater majority to be implemented – but it would have been political suicide to ignore it).
I've long argued that one of the most damaging aspects of social media and its algorithms is how it puts us in echo chambers, that we rarely encounter, much less debate or converse with people whose views are different from our own (when I was still on Twitter I did try to engage with such people. Most of the time I just got abuse, but I did manage to have interesting, intelligent conversations on two occasions. We didn't change each others minds, although we might have softened our opinions, but we did end up respecting each others' views and gained insight into the reasons behind them, which were rooted in genuine concern for our fellows). If we're ever going to get out of this mess we need to build bridges and to realize that the most of the people we disagree with aren't evil, they're not so different than us, that their decisions were well intentioned: we need to see each others' human faces and stop categorizing then as so alien from us that we can't engage in dialogue. The first step to that is not to be defensive about our own perspectives and to swallow our instinct to be contemptible or dismissive of theirs.
I remember watching the movie “Gandhi” many years ago. Gandhi initially was a lawyer in South Africa. Before his transition he was appalled to be lumped in with black South Africans.
It's the Hispanic Macho Man thing with them. They are upset about women stepping out of place. And the Opus Dei Catholic Church has replaced the Social Activist Catholic Church. It's about dominance with them.
People didn't know about bacteria and viruses, just plain didn't, and life was fraught and precarious. The new kind of malady is social media, x-ing people's minds away.
It's legitimately a mind virus that instills fear and rage both of which turns off the frontal lobes of the brain. And the adrenaline spurt is addictive on top of it all. This is why MAGAs keep Faux News on 24 hours a day. Also you have your Karen's freaking out in grocery stores to get their daily high. Same as exercise addiction.
I get frustrated by the "Dems need to message better" or "Dems are out of touch with..." arguments. I find it be exhaustively lazy especially when dozens of other factors aren't even brought to bear for consideration in those arguments. On the flip side, people also need to fucking listen, observe, and think (stop laughing). Often times they won't pay attention to a tap on the shoulder they have to get hit with a sledghammer in order to realize what's actually happening...and many times it's too late.
I don't want people to suffer from Donnie's horrifying policies...but they will (unfortunately it'll effect those that didn't vote for him). Maybe that will be the sledgehammer that will do what it needs to cause listening, observing, and thinking the next time they vote.
There is no sledgehammer large or heavy enough to break the shell of willful ignorance, cruelty, and spite.
They think because they work hard and are socially conservative, that this will get them a free pass in the eyes of the MAGA people. Unspoken: "I'm the better immigrant, not like those other ones!" When they do mass sweeps they pick up anybody who's the "wrong" skin color, no matter who, no matter the status and dump them into the detention/deportation system.
Former Sheriff Joe Arpaio did this on a small scale in Arizona (at least in some respects; he was local law enforcement, not federal. Still he targeted and terrorized Latinos and even particular communities).
Arpaio’s malfeasance cost Maricopa County residents over $80 million dollars. It’s always the folks like him playing tough guy who engage in bombast and bluster who end up carrying out counterproductive and overly costly policies.
SO true. Hate is expensive.
A straight by spending so much time, manpower and money terrorizing Latin communities, he left many hundreds of sexual assault case piling up, uncorked. I can't believe that old fucker is still alive.
My autocorrect is on coke. "And by spending," not "A straight by." Have no idea where that came from.
I know it! He is a bad weed for sure. I think he also arrested political enemies, like the publisher of the Phoenix New Times, if memory serves.
Pointing out that MAGAts are hateful racists is the same as pointing out that the sky is blue and water is wet. I'm not convinced that Musk's outrage bait is nothing more than a propaganda smokescreen. The core of his interests are simple: money & efforts to expand his business interests (see Russia, India, Germany, UK, and his failed bid in Brazil, which has moved his sight towards Venezuela) and avoid government oversight and regulation. It makes him more of a contemptible piece of [wealthy] white trash, but it makes his stans worse. The fact that he's rightly pointing out the demographics of the GOP base is almost lost in the noise.
Oh, I'm sure he's legit angry. He paid billions to own the White house. How DARE the rabble talk back and threaten his profits?
Has it occurred to you that many people of color who chose to support Republicans in spite of their overt racism did so because the GOP’s open misogyny appealed to them? I know nothing about the guy whose post is reproduced in the article but learning that his most cherished “conservative value” is the second class status of women would not surprise me at all.
Almost all the black 45 voters were men. 92% of black women voted for Harris/Walz.
I told my husband that every last 45 voter voted for hatred, which was the only consistently clearly communicated platform of 45 and Mr Couch. All these media folks claiming they voted because of the economy are knowingly lying through their teeth.
You raise an excellent point. Macho culture is misogynistic to a fault!
Totally agree. Not only did trump and co run an overtly racist campaign but a deeply misogynistic one as well. “It’s a Man’s World” was theme song of their convention for Christ’s sake.
I have said this before. The Republican Party, “75 percent grift, 25 percent I got mine”.
Boo fucking hoo to anyone thinking it can’t happen to them. Does anyone recall Trump 1.0 when some Trump voter lady’s husband got deported but she didn’t think it could happen to her?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-supporter-helen-beristain-husband-deported-mexico-roberto-ice-illegal-immigrant-detain-a7670606.html
A big Duh!!! Italians weren’t considered “white either. Too much melanin in their skin.
Covid was killing more men than women and more people of “color” than “whites”.
Wasn’t it convenient to “open up the country”? To have “herd immunity” when a higher percentage of the people the White Nationalists wanted gone were dying than the Younger White Americans.
Italians, Poles, and the rest of Eastern European immigrants were awarded "Honorary White People" status in World War I to go fightI. They came home from the war and discovered it didn't really count (I can remember the last really bad "wop joke" I heard was somewhere in the early/mid 70s). However, over the past 50 years the "honorary" has been taken from the title. Mostly.
Oh yes, I was hearing the same jokes in the 70ies and beyond. Interesting about the “honorary white”.
The Army was segregated then, and for the units like the Japanese-American 442nd Regimental Combat Team, most of the "white" officers who led them were eastern/southern European, or Jews; same with the African-American units like the 761st Armored "Black Panthers." Other African-American units were commanded by white southerners to "keep them in their place."
A "secular" Jewish officer who commanded the company of the 442nd who were "first through the gate" at Dachau (where his life was changed forever; he came home and became a rabbi) was the guy who first told me and the church group I belonged to back in 1958 about the Holocaust, passing around uncensored photos he took that day to prove it was real.
That must have been horrifying. No wonder he became a rabbi. It was probably the most healthy way to cope with the trauma of having been exposed to that.
My dad helped free the camps and he described the poor walking skeletons, he saw there and had a complete nervous breakdown when he came back from the horror. He then would not discuss it for over forty years.
And I well remember many of the “Polak” jokes. No, I’m not going to tell you. They’re all of the ‘fill in your least favorite ethnic group’ variety.
I always thought they were stupid, and said more about the person telling them.
A historical context here is asking what happened to the Tejanos who supported the Texas War of Independence from Mexico. It wasn't pretty.
But, they will protest, they are “one of the good ones,” as people used to say in my state south of the Mason Dixon line when I was growing up.
I wonder how class plays into this, as in people thinking they won't be affected because they have STEM degrees and are well educated, compared to other immigrants who do manual labor, janitorial work, nannying, dishwashing, elder care, crop picking, etc.
With the Indians, they are coming from a Caste System with themselves at the top. Even though they were modifying it, I doubt that it really penetrated the Brahmin eschlon. (It certainly hasn't penetrated the Southern Elite) And that is the level that promoted the highest education levels. So most of these people have come from the highest level of their Society and are very use to be the top. They couldn't imagine that they are considered the bottom by American Racists.
And they finally wake up from the ether.
I conversed with numerous Latinos that arrived undocumented but had the good fortune of becoming US citizens. My conclusion of those favoring Trump viewed immigrants no differently from the Nativists. New arrivals would take jobs away, drive wages down, possessed a different work ethic, and-unbelievably-culturally inferior. The missing element was whiteness.
Probably 10 % expressed party differences, the overriding issue being abortion. Inflation and the ballooning deficit were marginal issues.
The shocking discovery I experienced is the visceral hate toward Venezuelans, who in the last years competed with Cubans as the second or third group with most arrivals. Both , Venezuelans and Cubans, rub other Hispanics the wrong way as they’re not prone to undertake backbreaking jobs.
The Venezuelans bad rap was amplified through viral videos showcasing a thuggish behavior, disregard of US laws and regulations, and bad press such as the misleading claims of the Tren de Arauca gang’s takeover of Aurora, CO.
Regardless, the Democrats mixed messages were an overriding factor, their inconsistent policies were perceived as fake to the core, many Latinos took issue with their dishonesty . Others were not happy with the ongoing genocide, Arabs and Jews coexist peacefully in LATAM. I warned my congresspeople , received a stack of emails none addressed my concerns.
A small group fell hook, line, and sinker on widely spread canards that new arrivals were flown in, wined and dined in five star hotels, and provided a generous stipend. These folks were enraged beyond belief.
Refuting these canards an exercise in futility . When confronted on issues such as their discriminatory behavior against the new arrivals, doing exactly the same thing they did years before, the response was universal; they deserved it, the new arrivals lack values and work ethic. Pressed about Trump’s racist remarks, acted as if these were not directed at them. Self-delusion also played a role.
It’s an ongoing debate, I outlined my experience, which could be very different from others’ experiences.
I doubt Trump will deport these folks but if he does, most of them will find themselves in dire straits. Generally, some relative in their household are yet to receive their citizenship, their children and grandchildren, born here, will undergo a cultural shock. They’ll end up in rural communities or ranchos, a big difference from a city of a couple of million. They’ll eventually return as unskilled citizens.
I won’t take pleasure if those who voted for Trump suffer from Trump’s proposed policies, I’ll feel very sorry for their plight. I won’t judge them as our society has failed them, constantly dehumanizing Latinos. I’m a Latino, and take issue when ignorant racists who don’t have a clue why folks emigrate, resort to hateful rhetoric. Especially the orange freak.
The immigration raids this week in Kern County have (somehow?) shocked a lot of the Latino people I know who voted for Trump.
I mean, staking out gas stations where farmworkers typically buy food before they go work the fields or at lunch sure sounds like "immigration enforcement operations specifically targeting known criminals." 🙄🙄
Great observation didn’t cross my mind. They definitely should be shocked, if getting a bite at a gas station is akin to drug trafficking. Eating at your local Chili’s, CBP must up the ante , probably charging folks with ??? I’ll sleep with it, I might come up with the probable charges…
Thank you for your post. As I learned it in American History in college, each large emigration of folks of a like ethnic and cultural background (Italians, Irish, Chinese) was met the same way as the more recent large emigrations of Latin people. That is, they were treated with mistrust, bigotry, forced to take hard labor work for abysmal pay, had difficulty obtains basic human needs like shelter and food. Those large migrations and the individuals that took part became what we recognize today as “Americans.” It makes no sense at all to me that they feel like they have any right to claim ownership of this country, that gave their ancestors the same treatment they are doing. It was awful and inhumane then and it still is. Why do they think that only people from their ethnic backgrounds are allowed to be here? What’s worse is they are completely ignorant of the current reasons and the current events happening in the countries they are trying to escape from. Gang violence in Equador?People and their families murdered in cold blood for refusal to join violent gangs? That’s an older example but I think it makes the point. Worse, they don’t care why people are seeking a safer and better life in a place where they’ll be treated as subhuman and will work their asses off for crappy pay in dangerous work environments, just like the Italians did in factories. Geopolitics isn’t on their radar much less their knowledge. But it sure is interesting when we get a look at so many of the anti-immigrant extremists’ employees. Hell, the moron that really put the spotlight and false information on immigration and that has caused the much further spread of this horrific hatred is MARRIED TO AN IMMIGRANT!!! Yet FOX news and their like worship him and spread his poisonous agenda. I don’t know if they’ve ever once even acknowledged that she is an immigrant. And that her family is also, made possible by the same methods for residency and citizenship that he insults and twists. So, yeah, I agree it’s messed up and in no universe and under any circumstance is it ok.
Spot on Rebecca. Venezuelans rarely emigrated, then , as John Bolton stated, we applied sanctions that would strangle the regime, and suddenly they show up at our border.
Very few folks realize how our foreign policy enables emigration to the US.
Your Ecuadorean example is a case study, illustrates our nefarious policies. Under the leftist government of Correa, Ecuador enjoyed sustained high growth rates, and significant poverty reduction. Correa left a solid infrastructure and functioning public service. He did it because he eschewed the Washington consensus, and governed in the interest of the people. Oligarchs were beyond themselves, the US Embassy-Wikileaks provide a good overview- worked with oligarchs to destabilize his government. The MSM media spewed USG talking points, portraying him as a corrupt dictator, same as Evo in Bolivia.
He fled the country as his successor, who betrayed him, leveled charges against him. Successive governments reintroduced the Washington consensus, disassembling Correa’s policies. The oligarchs were back in control. As you mentioned, the social fabric deteriorated, the banana oligarchs joined forces with the Albanian mafia, and Ecuador became a drug smuggling heaven.
To contain the chaos, the useless scion of the wealthiest banana tycoon, Noboa, was elected president. He fashion himself as Ecuador’s Bukele. His strategy has backfired miserably, crime is rampant, infrastructure has collapsed-16 hour blackouts are the norm-, crackdown on critical press outlets. He resigned last week,as he is seeking reelection….
Under Correa, when he became president blackouts were common , upon leaving he left a solid electrical grid. The press treated blackouts under him as a sign of his incompetence. Under Noboa it’s Correa’s fault and the unusual weather patterns ( climate change is a hoax). Noboa promised Ecuadoreans the electric grid would be functional by December, he didn’t specify the year. He’s got the full backing of the USG, it’s pretty telling…
Then we have the right’s newly minted darling, Milei, praised for reigning hyperinflation by implementing Washington consensus’ policies on steroids. Petty issues such as increasing the ranks of the poor by 4 million in a year should be overlooked, but must celebrate the wealthy as these have made a killing in Milei’s first year. It won’t take long when we start seeing Argentinians crossing our border. Gotta give it to Milei, increasing the poverty rate from 42 percent to 53 percent is quite a feat.
It’s an unending story as we can’t stop meddling in other countries’ affairs. Our sights are now on Colombia’s Petro…
I’m sure trump will quickly “solve” the genocide atrocity. 🤪
Sad state of affairs.
Definitely so when criminals rule.
Thanks for your comment. You make some interesting points that I’m trying to process. I’m having a difficult time understanding that we have a trusting nature.
Why do Christian evangelicals vote lockstep for republican candidates, despite their moral shortcomings, such as Trump?
Your comment brought to mind a book by Chris Hedges called American Fascists. Chris tried to understand the reasons behind the emergence of the Christian right, spending two years among them.
He describes that members are overwhelmingly poor disaffected whites from communities hollowed out by globalization. Their frustrating and hopeless nature, ripe for exploitation, didn’t go unnoticed by wealthy whites many of these committed racists e.g. Jerry Falwell.
These so-called pastors preach a twisted Christian ideology. They advocate dominionism, the country must be ruled by a set of Christian beliefs. The beliefs are appalling, promoting masculinity, the right to use violence against infidels, female subjugation, conversion therapy-applying nefarious methods such as inducing vomiting, exorcism, electric shocks and other methods, and dismantling institutions such as libraries, civil rights organizations, government agencies.
Racism against LGBQT, Islamophobia, US ruled by Christian whites, diversity is evil, carrying weapons is encouraged-the day of rapture will be a violent one-, wealth is considered virtuous. The latter is interesting, explains why folks vote against their interests, they’ve been told that inequality is OK, and the saddest part the pastors live a life of luxury mega mansion, yachts, private jets, etc. by milking their followers blindly.
It’s estimated Evangelicals represent 20 % of the electorate. Any republican hopeful must pay homage to secure their votes. Therefore, oligarchs and corporations sponsor these groups, blatantly taking advantage of them. Bush Jr. was the first to capitalize on this movement, every Republican candidate followed suit, and supported Trump as 80 % of these Evangelicals voted for him.
My question is where would the trusting nature fit their narrative? Their situation doesn’t improve, if I had a trusting nature, I would question why issues remain the same despite being told differently.
As you state, it’s a complex issue and no single answer will explain why folks vote against their interests ( Hispanics who came undocumented, became citizens, and vote for someone who who would
strip them of their citizenship)? Or against value voters (Evangelicals that preach against abortion, philandering, hedonism) ?
One last point, I didn’t expect to write this much. I saw a panel on Piers Morgan discussing Mark Zuckerberg’s recent trip to Mar-a-Largo check in hand and change of heart, no more censorship. As you rightly point out, it devolved into cultural warfare. Finally, a sane voice stated the obvious, this is what Musk, Zuckerberg, and our oligarchs wants us to do, spend our energy and petty issues, divide and conquer . The real issue is why we allow these folks to highjack our government. I completely agree, and it’s hard to have a meaningful conversation without devolving into petty issues that keep us distracted.
Thanks for sharing, I need to get going. Before I start ranting the storm Musk created in support of Tommy Robinson, it’s brought the worst out of the right, crude Islamophobia, Robinson is perceived as a paragon of morality defending white girls. If only they could see how well behaved are young Brit’s.
I need to
I admire your charitable view of Trump voters. I've been searching for a reason that isn't ‘othering’ or blaming racism, sexism or misogyny for their decisions. I find it hard to believe that such a large minority are all cruel, ignorant, racist, sexist or misogynistic. And I think I've found an explanation: that it's down to our trusting nature. The Trump voters already have a conservative rather than progressive viewpoint, so they believed the lies they were being fed because, coupled with their political & cognitive bias, they trusted the messages conservative politicians were feeding them and mistrusted the messages of Democrats. The bigger the lie, the easier it is to sell: “That's so outrageous it must be true, no one would get away with such a whopping lie.”! This was a tactic originally (or at least most infamously) was espoused and employed by Hitler and the Nazi party.
Of course there are racists, sexists and misogynists among them and this explanation isn't entirely satisfactory either. The truth is probably complex and complicated but I believe we have to start looking beyond the deeply divisive explanations that resort to labelling Trump voters as contemptible. Yes, some of them surely are, but it just doesn't seem reasonable to say they all are, or even that the majority are. Sticking to the divisive arguments only plays into Trump's & the GOP's hands: “Divide and conquer”. If I may make a comparison with the Brexit vote here in the UK, I've met very few people that have admitted to voting for Brexit. That's partly because Londoners overwhelmingly voted against it. However, the ones I have met weren't stupid, cruel or xenophobic, they had genuine concerns. Their ‘fault’ was believing the widespread misinformation about the EU they'd been pedalled for decades. That fed into their cognitive bias and they believed the lies they were being told: the £300 million per week that would go to the NHS; our fishing & farming industries freed from red tape and overregulation; that we could get our dark navy blue passports back; that bananas could be curved again (excuse my sarcasm, but the last two were both persistent myths that had been touted in the right-wing tabloid press since at least the 80s. The truth is that there never was an EU regulation about the shape of bananas and neither was there one that stated that our passports had to be burgundy; the British government opted to conform to the colour of other EU countries' passports for fairly obvious reasons). Brexit was every bit as devisive an issue here as Trump is in the US and if there were another referendum now a large number of Brexit voters would vote to rejoin (the numbers were actually very similar to the popular vote in the US, around 1%. The 2016 referendum was actually non-binding and I always argued that for such a monumental decision it wasn't quorate – the practise in any big company that major decisions need a ⅔ or greater majority to be implemented – but it would have been political suicide to ignore it).
I've long argued that one of the most damaging aspects of social media and its algorithms is how it puts us in echo chambers, that we rarely encounter, much less debate or converse with people whose views are different from our own (when I was still on Twitter I did try to engage with such people. Most of the time I just got abuse, but I did manage to have interesting, intelligent conversations on two occasions. We didn't change each others minds, although we might have softened our opinions, but we did end up respecting each others' views and gained insight into the reasons behind them, which were rooted in genuine concern for our fellows). If we're ever going to get out of this mess we need to build bridges and to realize that the most of the people we disagree with aren't evil, they're not so different than us, that their decisions were well intentioned: we need to see each others' human faces and stop categorizing then as so alien from us that we can't engage in dialogue. The first step to that is not to be defensive about our own perspectives and to swallow our instinct to be contemptible or dismissive of theirs.
I remember watching the movie “Gandhi” many years ago. Gandhi initially was a lawyer in South Africa. Before his transition he was appalled to be lumped in with black South Africans.
"I never thought they would hate me, too!!"
The smart people, of all colors, don’t vote for republicans.
The same billionaire who’s doubling down on his endorsement of a German Neo Nazi party. While lying about who they are😒
Fascinating 🤨.
I wish I could be there when the Hispanic Proud Boys like Enrique Tarrio discover that they're not white.
I always wondered about him. What the . . . .?
It's the Hispanic Macho Man thing with them. They are upset about women stepping out of place. And the Opus Dei Catholic Church has replaced the Social Activist Catholic Church. It's about dominance with them.
🎶"Macho, Macho man..."
Very tangential, but...
People didn't know about bacteria and viruses, just plain didn't, and life was fraught and precarious. The new kind of malady is social media, x-ing people's minds away.
It's legitimately a mind virus that instills fear and rage both of which turns off the frontal lobes of the brain. And the adrenaline spurt is addictive on top of it all. This is why MAGAs keep Faux News on 24 hours a day. Also you have your Karen's freaking out in grocery stores to get their daily high. Same as exercise addiction.